Tags
Civil liberties, Dissenters, Education, Missions, Public sphere, UK, US
There are many claims by scholars that printing and capitalism created the public sphere and that the public sphere enabled democracy. I don’t think that wrong, but they didn’t spring full blown from Pallas Athena’s brow either, they came from somewhere. So where did they come from?
One way in which CPs dispersed power was by a massive expansion of access to printed material. There are several reasons for this.
- CPs changed the idea of whom books were for. The CPs believed (and still do) that everyone needed access to God’s Word, not just elites. That meant that universal literacy was required, including the poor and women. Books also had to be inexpensive and available in languages that all the people could read. In the vernacular, not in a foreign language or in a classical language no longer in everyday use.
- CPs expected people to make their own choices in religion because they believed that people were saved by true faith in God, not by membership in a group or by sacraments, important though both are. Therefore, each individual had to decide which faith to follow for himself.
Printed materials were used extensively in this work, which forced other, competing groups to also use printed materials. This competition is one of the reasons for the rise in mass printing. That this had a catalytic effect may be shown by the movement of Europe’s printing centers. Before the Reformation, most printing was done in Italy, obviously Protestantism made little headway there, neither did mass literacy nor did an early public sphere arise. In England, however, before the Reformation, there was little printing, but CPs used printing to mobilize ordinary people, and the elites responded in kind. Thus came newspapers, printed debates, and an early public sphere. Also rooted in that is the modern world’s adoption of English as our lingua franca, I think, with all the advantages that gives to those of us for whom it is our native language. Even in continental Europe with all the damage from the religious wars, Protestant areas produce more books and export more printed material, both per capita.
And this:
In the West, the development of CP movements also predicted many of the major advancements in the quantity and techniques of printing. For example, CP Bible and tract societies helped spark a nineteenth century printing explosion. Their drive to print mass quantities of inexpensive texts preceded major technological innovations and helped spur technological and organizational transformations in printing, binding, and distribution that created markets and facilitated later adoption by commercial printers. Before this printing explosion, commercial publishers generally fought mass printing to keep prices high, even in Great Britain. Thus although markets and technology are important, they are not sufficient to explain the timing or locations of major increases in printing.
This becomes even clearer outside Europe.
First, religion influenced whether elites valued printing. Christians, Jews, and Mahayana Buddhists adopted printing without CP competition (none were primarily monastic, and all had long, nonpoetic religious texts that are difficult to memorize). However, Muslim, Hindu, Theravada Buddhist, and other societies in Asia and North Africa were exposed to printed books and printing presses by Chinese, Mongols, Jews, Asian Christians, Catholic missionaries, and European trading companies for hundreds of years before they printed any books.
By 1700, Europeans had created fonts for most major Asian languages, and in fact, the Portuguese had even given the Moghul Emperor a press and fonts in the early 1600s. It went unused. Although the major Asian economies were as big, or bigger than the European ones. We can see from this that there were no intrinsic factors holding them back, it was purely a choice they made.
To most elites, printing seemed ugly, it spread books to those “not qualified to interpret them,” and it undermined elite status/control. Jews, Eastern Christians, and trade companies only printed materials for their own consumption (mostly in “foreign” languages), and Catholics printed few texts (not mass propaganda). This limited printing activity did not threaten local elites’ ability to control public discourse or overwhelm their ability to respond orally or with manuscripts. Thus, Muslim, Hindu, and Theravada Buddhist elites resisted change.
[…] CPs printed so many vernacular texts that it forced elite response. For example, within 32 years of importing a press to India in 1800, three British missionaries printed more than 212,000 copies of books in 40 languages and, along with other missionaries, created the fonts and paper that dominated South Asian printing for much of the nineteenth century.
Conversionary Protestants also had much to do with the consequences of printing. If the availability of printing was enough to cause mass literacy, newspapers, and the public sphere, they should have developed in Asia as much as 600 years before they did in Europe. However, they didn’t, they remained dormant until the CPs arrived in the nineteenth century.
It’s important, I think, to note that CPs are not necessary to sustain a print revolution. That is a function of a market. But they were a crucial catalyst in developing that market.
Next: Education
Steve Brown said:
NEO, this series seems to be getting better with each post. Bravo!
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NEO said:
Thanks, Steve. There’s a huge amount that I didn’t cover as well, including all the stats that support his conclusions.
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Bosco the Great said:
“Gutenberg cast a metal stamp for printing indulgences, (those Church contracts that Martin Luther hated so much). There was more of a profit motive in the business than any religious calling
It was a crime to translate the Bible. “In 1521, William Tyndale, an Oxford scholar, began to translate the Bible into English. He did so because he was shocked to find that the people of England were scripturally illiterate. Tyndale translated the Bible into English, printed copies of his version at Antwerp, and illegally smuggled the Bibles into England. In 1535, he was betrayed by a fellow Englishman and was burnt at the stake.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/01/gute-j03.html
I’ve heard it asserted that the Roman Catholic church gave us the Bible–but the fact is that she tortured, tormented, and killed people who believed the Bible and the Bible was on her index of prohibited books. For someone to publicly say that Roman Catholic Church gave us the Bible, says that either the speaker does not know history or else that he is lying and knows that his audience, on the whole, is profoundly ignorant, credulous, bewitched, misinformed, and deceived.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/did_the_roman_catholic_church_give_us_the_Bible.htm
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Bosco the Great said:
I was just reading about Tyndale in a catholic site. they mentioned that they burned the bibles but made no mention, at all, of burning Tyndale along with them. Most catholics site either don’t mention their churches burning of people or make some tiny hint that a few were punished by death.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Link to site?
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Bosco the Great said:
The Wycliff and Tyndale Bibles which were collect and burned by the Catholic Church in times past, were faulty translations, and therefore, were not the Holy Word of God. The Church prohibited these corrupt Bibles in order to preserve the integrity of Holy Scripture.
It goes on to contradict its self, the same as the catechism does, being sure the catholic readers don’t care:
The Catholic Church bases her teaching upon one source: The word of God. This divine revelation is transmitted in two ways: through Scripture and apostolic tradition.
ibid
The Word of god comes from one source…..the mouth of god. But, as Jesus warned, they hold up the traditions of men as equal or in most cases better than scripture.
This article makes no mention of the men who died horrible deaths at the hands of the CC, just because they wanted to get a bible into the hands of the people.
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chalcedon451 said:
Sorry. Bosco, but can you quote where Jesus says that all we need is Scripture? Thanks in advance.
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Bosco the Great said:
“Ye think ye get eternal life from the scriptures, but it is they that speak of me”
The book doesn’t make one saved. one has to invite Jesus into ones life, then one has salvation.
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chalcedon451 said:
The Scriptures Jesus mentions here is the OT. All you have to do is prove that he told us what books were in the NT and you win. Over to you.
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Bosco the Great said:
Youre not even being cute good brother. I don’t even know what youre trying to get at. Jesus didn’t care about what was going to be written after he left. he knew all about it in advance. Why would Jesus talk about books and letters that weren’t even written at that time? Anyway, the whole NT can be found in the OT. So what? They wont save you. Jesus stands at your door and knocks. He is the Word of God. Without him the NT is nothing to you but ink on paper. The Devil knows the bible. Is that helping him?
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chalcedon451 said:
You are the one who bangs on about Scripture – now you say it doesn’t matter. Make your mind up.
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Bosco the Great said:
Im gonna scream if you don’t stop yanking my chain.
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chalcedon451 said:
I take it you can’t. But hey, go ahead and scream.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Thanks for the link. Of course I am sure you realize that the reason Tyndale’s translation was condemned (and the reason he met with a horrific death) is because the translation was so poor that it was considered a risk to men’s eternal salvation, not because he “wanted to get a bible into the hands of the people.” Once again I think you are garbling facts in order to make your point.
Let me ask you one question Bosco: do you believe that God works to convert men’s hearts through people? I mean, can a pastor (for example) say something that would change a person’s heart from evil to good, or, another example, can a girl in a parking lot do God’s work by saying something that changes someone’s heart and life forever?
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Bosco the Great said:
Yes, a pastor can say something that makes the person realize they need a savior. Its the holy ghost that makes the spirit good, not the human delivering the message.
People deliver the message, and its up to the listener to either accept it or hearden their heart.
Now how bad can a translation be that it sends men to hell? its not the book that saves, silly rabit, its Jesus, whom the book speaks of who saves. Did Tyndale need to be burned to death for it? If you noticed, I posted a picture of a dragon in a papal crest, the papal symbol rite above and below the dragon. The dragon sought to make war with the remnant of the seed of the woman(Christians). Its no wonder to the rest of us why men like Tyndale and Wycliff were hunted down like animals by the dragon.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Then we are in agreement. If you notice, my question was about God working through people, not about people doing the work themselves. This is what Catholics believe, that God works through people, just as he worked through that girl you met in the parking lot. Without meeting her, it is possible that you might have read the Bible a zillion times and not have met Jesus. JEsus told the disciples to out into the world and spread the good news (actually he is recorded as telling them to baptism them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). My point is that Jesus told us to go out and talk to people to convert hearts and minds. That is why the 10 Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount have to do with faith but also a lot about how we treat one another.
I am writing all of this,which I know you already know, because this is why tradition is important, it is about people baptizing and converting people in the faith. You seem to think that Catholic tradition is man made, but what Catholics believe is that tradition is what God inspired in people to do and say. That girl talked to you and then God took it from there to change your heart. My point is that God used the girl to get to you. So why can’t God use people to write down HIS inspiration into a book, and then use people to discuss and decide which writings are true and which are not?
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Bosco the Great said:
So why can’t God use people to write down HIS inspiration into a book, and then use people to discuss and decide which writings are true and which are not?
Christ DOESNT WORK THAT WAY.Either you know him personally or you don’t.
Heres a hint….pray to female is idolatry.
Pray to dead is idolatry
Costumes are forbidden.
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chalcedon451 said:
So is the Pharisee view you advance, which is claiming you are saved and others aren’t, so is boasting, so is posting porn, so is being a cause of dissent. See, you strain at gnats and swallow camels Bosco – you blind guide, you hypocrite, you viper. Just saying.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Sorry Bosco, God gave us brains so we could use them. Jesus himself discussed the meaning of scripture and led the disciples to understand what was written and taught. He did not say “Either you know me personally or you don’t”.
25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
Luke 24:25-27, 30-32
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Bosco the Great said:
Yes good brother Zeke, people spread the good news. You don’t sound very catholic. You sound closer to a Christian. Let me tell you, here is where its important to know Jesus personally. And I quote;
Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
Douay-Rheims Bible
You see, one has to know him. Opening the door and letting him in is how one starts. Religion is nice, but one has to open for himself. A costume cant do it for you.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Very good answer, Bosco. What puzzles me is that you seem to take it upon yourself to presume to know who has opened the door and who has not.
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Bosco the Great said:
Yes good brother Zek, that bothers a lot of folks in here. Too bad. Jesus said” my sheep know my voice”. Its true. People who know Jesus can hear Jesus voice in others who know him. Its not magic. I try not to use that as a bully pulpit. But, those who are unsaved know they are unsaved,….they just don’t like to hear it. They are told they are saved at their sunday services, but still, they cant look you in the eye and say for sure they aresaved. Ask any in here…..they will tell you they are just going to wait and see if the Lord will have mercy on them. Or, maybe they are expecting Diana to save them at the hr of their death. Ask a born again person and they will tell you they have a sure salvation.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
I don’t understand. Do you mean that you and other saved people whose voices you recognize do what Paul describes in Philippians 4:
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
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Bosco the Great said:
Theres something people don’t understand. Paul was addressing already saved people.
Might be time to open the door your self.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God.
Philippian 1:9-11
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Bosco the Great said:
Who is Paul writing to? (is he saying this to every person in the world?) He is writing to the saints in some city. The religious think hes talking to them. Its nice that you read them…it keeps you off the streets.
Jesus stands at your door.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
And Jesus said to the crowd that had gathered to hear him and be healed, “It is good that you are here, at least it keeps you off the streets.”
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chalcedon451 said:
As any educated person knows, both sides burnt each other – those, who, like you, thought their personal relationship with Jesus was all that mattered burned catholics – shall we smear you with guilt by association, Bosco?
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Bosco the Great said:
I highly doubt that any born again Christian would ever be so satanic as to burn someone to death over their choice of religion. Early protestants were catholics, and murder was all they knew how to do. Read acts. You you think any born again saint would harm anyone? they would rather die themselves than to do harm to any man. Its the religious that are wild eyed murderers.
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chalcedon451 said:
Well, they said they were born again – but you all do – you all sound the same to me.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Yes Chalcedon, “read acts” for goodness sakes. 🙂
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Bosco the Great said:
I know good brother Chalcedon read it. Its a saying…to read it and see something. one can read it looking for a particular idea. I suggest he read it looking at how the saints were harmless as doves. One can read it in their mind after knowing it. That’s how I do it. I can quote scripture without opening the book.
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Bosco the Great said:
Us all sound the same to you? I thought you said you didn’t know any born again Christians?
Heres a rule of thumb….if a group of people say they are born again, first, its rare to find a group of actually saved people. Second, if they go about to do violence, they aren’t actually born again. The protestant witch hunts, the catholic witch hunts….these aren’t gods people.
The moral of the story is, ask jesus to show himself to you. if one doesn’t know him, one doesn’t know him. Religions wont make one know him. Religions take one further away from Christ…on purpose, no accident. Religions have the nativity scene in the back room to bring out during Christmas, they talk of the resurrection, they praise god and sing, then they drop a little poison in to kill your soul. You know what I mean…extra biblical stuff, like dead men and costumes.
Remember…..rat poison is 95% good food and 5% poison.
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chalcedon451 said:
It’s simple – what good deeds has your faith caused you to do? Where are the fruits? Without fruits, it is mere words.
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Bosco the Great said:
telling you jesus stands at the door. ive led other to Christ, friends and people I don’t even know. These are the works ive been commissioned to do.
How many people have you led to Christ? I mean the invisible god, not a cracker in the hands of a costumed holyman.
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chalcedon451 said:
You worship a god no one can see, I worship the God who was incarnate. I have led no one, because no man can lead anyone to God – the Spirit does that, I am simply an instrument for him. Do tell me where, in Scripture, it says any man by himself leads anyone to God?
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Bosco the Great said:
Pul used to give the whole story of salvation to a crowd of people. From the exodus to the present time. Many would come to Christ. Peter used to do the same. That is leading people to Christ. Why were these people there? Well, as you said, they were led by the spirit to hear the word of god.
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chalcedon451 said:
And yet you deny the successors of Peter and Paul?
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Bosco the Great said:
You are so quick to ask me to document things in the bible. So show me where Peter or Paul passed on his office. By the way, they didn’t have an office. they were servants of the most High. Neither one made mantion of an office or successor.All men are equally worthless in the eyes of god.
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chalcedon451 said:
Why do you keep asking where it is in the Bible when you say the Bible isn’t important? We see it in the writings of the Apostolic Fathers – men who knew Peter and Paul.
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Bosco the Great said:
Anyone who knew Peter would know that he considered himself a big zero, a nothing, nada, a slave for Christ, humble. These liars who claim that
peter passed on some big fat jewel studded robe and a gold lined ffish hat are just that…liars.
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chalcedon451 said:
What was passed on was Christ’s commission to him. Presumably you think Jesus was lying and know better than Jesus?
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Bosco the Great said:
All men are the same. No one man has some special commission. The idea of a holy man is counter to what is in the NT. Anyway, if you ever soberd up and looked at the succession of your Pontifs, you would see gaps, absences, murder and and selling of the chair of Peter. Even 3 Pontifs at once. So The Marys claim to succession is bogus. You worship a fraud, a pretender to Christ.
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chalcedon451 said:
If you ever put your brain in gear before putting finger to the keyboard, you might recall there was this fellow called Jesus who commissioned 12 Apostles. These fellows commissioned Matthias after Judas’ suicide. We know from men who knew the Apostles that they they commissioned others. That from time to time there were problems is to be expected – when Calvary Chapel has survived a hundred years, let us know.
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Bosco the Great said:
The very first 12. they were to go out by 2s. So they added one. No where in the NT is a method or even talk of having successors. if its so all important, like the Marys claim, where is Peters successor and Paul, why didn’t he mention a successor?, and if they had successors, where are they? Ah, the Mormons have all 12 successors.
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chalcedon451 said:
Their successors are the Pope and the Bishops. We know from the Apostolic Fathers that the Apostles appointed successors. Of course, if you think Jesus meant that only the original 12 could bind and loose, you have to explain why they appointed a successor.
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Bosco the Great said:
The NT says why they appointed one successor, it was so they can go out in 2s. Peter made no mention of a office he held, Paul made no mention either.
Jesus id say that apeter would be led where he didn’t want to go, as an old man. This doesn’t sound like the god on earth pope the Marys claim he was.
These apostolic fathers…that just a claim. Typical of the Chruch of Mary. Everything has some holy name. Holy Office, Holy See.
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chalcedon451 said:
You can choose to ignore those who were pupils of the Apostles, but why you would make that point is a puzzle. Still, possibly helps your bigotry? Hard to be a bigot if you think and know stuff through reading.
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Bosco the Great said:
One day you will understand good brother. but for now, ill write on the chalkboard to teach the blind.
You say these men were pupils of the apostles. I always get a laugh there. I get this mental image of Peter standing in front of a few guys teaching them how to be men of god. The religious think someone can sign up and pay the tuition for man of god school, get a diploma and bingo, a man of god.
The apostles told people to let Jesus come in and sup with them. Its the holy ghost that teaches, not a man. A man can be a withess to what has happened to him, and give the story of salvation, but its the HS that makes it come alive.
At judgment, jesus says….ah, you were taught well my servant, come into my rest.
At judgment Jesus says….you ate enough crackers, come into my rest.
At Judgment jesus says….Well lookie here, Mary prayed for you to go to heaven, come on in.
Or maybe, maybe, Jesus says….Ah, I see you told off that stupid Bosco enough times….come into my rest.
Here is what Jesus said he will say….”Depart from me, I never knew you”
Want to know him? hes outside your door.
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chalcedon451 said:
I believe what Jesus said – you don’t. He said they had the power to bind and loose, and he founded a church to carry on the mission. You don’t believe Jesus, I do. One day you will stop and think – until then, you will type and not think.
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Bosco the Great said:
I wont type much because this keyboard is messed up. I have to struggle to type this.
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chalcedon451 said:
Wise – to keep denying what Jesus said is folly.
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Bosco the Great said:
I don’t deny what Jesus said. You believe this extra biblical stuff and call me in error because I don’t believe the extra biblical ideas. The church of Mary deals with this by telling its devotees that everything we need for salvation isn’t in the bible. It also tells its flock that it cant understand the bible. This discourages the flock from reading it.The church of Mary learned from the beginning that people who get into the bible start to question the practices of the Marys. So they banned it and killed anyone who circumvented this edict. This isn’t gods church, its some pagan antichrist church of Diana. The printing press torpedoed the church of Marys attempt to keep the bible out of the hands of the people.
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chalcedon451 said:
You believe in all sorts of extra Biblical ideas yourself. You believe in the Bible. Where does the Bible tell you it even exists. At best it talks about scripture, referring to the OT, it does not tell you there is an NT or what books are in it. You believe it, but only because the Apostolic and early Church fathers tell us what books they received. So, every time you bang on about extra Biblical stuff, you make me laugh. I guess I should not laugh at ignorance, but you’ve been told so many times, it is wilful ignorance.
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chalcedon451 said:
This new nonsense of yours about ‘Marys’, yes, we do what the Bible said, and always call her blessed. As you don’t, shall we call you the ‘satan’s’ as you insult Jesus’ mother?
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Bosco the Great said:
The NT was already around befor Constantine started his state run religion.
And everytime you tell me to thank the Church of Mary for giving me the bible, I tell you the holy ghost gave me the bible. Sorry ol bean, but im not giving men the credit.
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chalcedon451 said:
Who mentioned Constantine? It was the successors of the Apostles who recognised their work. I follow them, you mock them. I believe Jesus told the truth when he said he founded a Church, you don’t believe him. I believe him when he said Peter was the Rock; you don’t. I am a Bible believing Christian,you are not. I believe what Scripture says, you make it believe what you already think. Best of luck with that.
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Bosco the Great said:
You believe the bible? But you say most of the bible is allegory. This allows you to fill in what ever you think scripture should say. You might believe the bible but the Church of Mary doesn’t believe one word of it…that’s why they have knee pads in front of their graven images so your knees wont hurt while you bow befor them.
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chalcedon451 said:
No, I don’t. I say that the obvious allegories are allegories. Jesus is not literally a door, and not even you believe he has a handle and is made of wood. Uou do not believe a word of the Bible, you make it up as you go along. Jesus says he found a church, Bosco says no; jesus says he founded it on Peter, Bosco says no; Jesus says that the Apostles have powers to forgive sins, Bosco says they don’t. Bosco strains at a few gnats and swallows satan’s camel whole.
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Bosco the Great said:
Ah, good to see you Quiav the Great.
Give no quarter to those damnable protestants.
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Bosco the Great said:
The New Testament did not come from Roman Catholic Church councils
An excerpt from A Woman Rides the Beast (p. 336; emphases ours)–
Catholicism’s claim that the New Testament comes from the Church by decision of the councils is false. No early council even ruled on what was canonical; yet in these councils, to support their arguments, both sides quoted the New Testament, which had obviously been accepted by general consensus without any conciliar definition of the canon. The Synod of Antioch, in A.D. 266, denounced the doctrine of Paul of Samosata as “foreign to the ecclesiastical canon.” The Council of Nicea in 325 refers to “the canon”; and the Council of Laodicea in 363 exhorted that “only the ‘canonized’ books of both Old and New Testaments be read in the church.” Yet none of those councils deemed it necessary to list the canonized books, indicating that they were already well-known and accepted by the common consent of Christians indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
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chalcedon451 said:
Councils were never used to establish the Canon, so your whole cut and paste is based on the Dan Brown legend. The first authorised NTs had in them books we don’t have, so, again, the idea that there was a consensus and everything was always the same is also wrong. If you want a good online account, try this one:
http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/canon.html
You’ll be no wiser, but better informed.
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Bosco the Great said:
Thank you for trying to educate me. There is a lot of talk in that article, most is unreadable. Smoke, I like to call it. Reading it makes one more confused.
The Lord gave me a reliable book of his words. Its complete and lacks nothing. I don’t care how he did it, like I don’t care how he parted the Red Sea. people walked thru the sea on dry land…they didn’t care How he parted it.
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chalcedon451 said:
Yes, reading requires concentration and thinking; which of them causes you problems?
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Bosco the Great said:
Its not a cohesive train of thought. its maybe this, probably that, he said this , he did that. Its just not a scientific work. Scientific means its guides one from the start to its logical finish. History isn’t scientific, but it can be displayed in a scientific manner.
I can tell you how we got the bible. God inspired men to wirte, …some were just letters, most were books. God had them collected and bound together. Sure, he used men to do it. Now I have a copy. Simple as that. No glory to men, like some religions I know who love to glory in men.
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chalcedon451 said:
How sad. Yes, you can make the richness of life so poor it fits the limits of your lack of imagination – but what a sad life.
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Bosco the Great said:
My life is sad, but I know the creator of heaven and earth, personally. that gives me peace, not the peace the world gives, but the peace Chrst gives.
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chalcedon451 said:
That’s good.
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David B. Monier-Williams said:
St. Bisto, another Chick publication. Twit!
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Bosco the Great said:
I don’t usually use Chick information, because im not sure of the accuracy. They take artistic license a lot. But the message is always good. if yould like, ill start quoting them more often. (;-D
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Bosco the Great said:
Ah rats!!!!! The Chick Track site wont let me copy. Whats this world coming to.
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Grandpa Zeke said:
Praise God.
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